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 Sujet du message : Le jour le plus long
MessagePublié : dim. déc. 09, 2007 12:56 pm 
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Bonjour

Fred, dans sa présentation distrayante du Jour le plus long, nous a présenté l'intervention de Pips sur les plages du débarquement avec retour à Creil.

Sur un forum j'ai trouvé cette mention : Lt Wolfgang Fischer of 3./JG 2 describing the sortie he flew;

" we were woken at 04h30 and taken to the airfield from the hotels in the town (Nancy) where we were quartered. We were airborne a short while later and flew to Creil (north of Paris) at around 05h00 to have our Fw 190s fitted with underwing rocket launchers. We took off again at 09h30 to strafe shipping off 'Gold' beach. There was 7/10 cloud cover as we overflew the Seine estuary, which allowed us to close on our targets and launch our rockets. We could see a huge number of enemy fighters orbiting over the landing beaches. My rockets probably scored a direct hit on a "Victory" class troop landing vessel...we fled the scene and returned to Chamant near Senlis (south of Creil )after this sortie.."

"..there were no further sorties that afternoon and the pilots of I./JG 2 spent the afternoon bathing at the swimming pool in Senlis.. a joint sortie with III./JG 2 was organised for the early evening against gliders on the ground near the Orne estuary under Gruppenkommandeur III./JG2 Hptm. Huppertz who landed at our field with five machines at 19h30..as we aproached Bernay we spotted a formation of a least twelve (335th FS/4th FG ) Mustangs strafing German infantry near a bridge over the Risle...using the evening mist and setting sun for cover we climbed to 1200m to take up a position for a classic bounce..the ensuing combat lasted just minutes as we were each able to select a target before diving down on them… 8 P-51s were shot down with no losses on our side !.."..


La réaction de la Luftwaffe, bien que très modeste, aurait donc été plus conséquente que ne le laisserait paraître la légende?

A+


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MessagePublié : dim. déc. 09, 2007 19:33 pm 
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D'après ce qu'on peut lire dans le livre de Jean-Bernard Frappé, la Luftwaffe a en effet été présente. Peut-être pas comme elle aurait du l'être vu ses moyens et certains ordres (voir ce qui s'est passé avec l'escadre déplacée de l'Oberstleutnant "Pips") mais est-ce que cela aurait changé les choses, les auraient retardées, ... ?

Dans le livre de Frappé, on trouve plus de 300 sorties dont 170 de chasseurs appartenant à la Lutflotte 3 qui auront lieu ce 6 juin. Ce n'est rien comparé à plus de 10 000 sorties estimées des alliés. Les alliés disposent de plus de chasseurs, de bombardiers ... environ 10 000 à 14 000 appareils (tout confondu) compter à peine 900 pour les allemands.

Pour ce qui concerne l'Oise, la JG 2 "Richstofen", alors basée à Creil, est présente sur le front de Normandie. Une douzaine de FW 190 vont sur les plages. (secteur Gold).

Les premiers combats aériens auront lieu plus tard vers la fin de la matinée, avec comme victoires pour la Lutwaffe ce jour J environ 17 avions abattus : 3 P47, 5 P51 et 9 Typhoon, contre la perte de 9 FW190. plus des dégats occasionnés par la DCA.

La Luftwaffe ne fera intervenir ses bombardiers que dans la nuit du 6 au 7 juin et des renforts de chasseurs arriveront de l'Est ... mais plus de 36 heures après le début du débarquement.

On connait la suite ...


Image

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Dernière édition par Frédéric Gondron le sam. mars 29, 2008 17:50 pm, édité 1 fois.

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MessagePublié : mar. déc. 11, 2007 22:49 pm 
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Inscription : sam. nov. 17, 2007 21:30 pm
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Bonsoir à tous,

Au sujet de ce film le jour le plus long.

C'est l'histoire de Priller ?
Savez vous de quel terrain il a décollé ? J'ai des infos comme quoi, il aurait quitté le Flugplätz de Lille / Bondues.
Si mes souvenirs sont exacts, dans le film il parle bien d'un terrain prés de Lille !

Merci

laurent BAILLEUL
http://www.anciens-aerodromes.com


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MessagePublié : mer. déc. 12, 2007 0:57 am 
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Bonsoir Laurent,

c'est ce que je raconte dans mon article sur le site.

Voir rubrique Divers "L'Oise actrice ..."
http://oise-1939-1945.jed.st/

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MessagePublié : mer. déc. 12, 2007 8:53 am 
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Inscription : sam. nov. 17, 2007 21:30 pm
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Bonjour Frederic,

Un grand merci pour ces infos et cette page faisant un parallelle entre film et historique.

Concernant la ferme Dillies prés du terrain de Bondues, je connais. J'ai un collégue du groupe ''terrains aviation'' qui va peut être m'envoyer une photo actuelle du lieu.
Tu sera certainement intéressé.

A+

Laurent


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MessagePublié : mer. déc. 12, 2007 9:24 am 
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Il y a déjà une place de réservée sur le site ! :wink:

Merci d'avance au collègue et à toi Laurent.

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 Sujet du message : plage du film
MessagePublié : mer. déc. 26, 2007 19:30 pm 
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Inscription : sam. nov. 17, 2007 21:30 pm
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Bonjour Frederic,

J'ai eu la chance ce printemps dernier de passer quelques jours sur l'iles de Ré, prés de la plage des baleines.
J'ai lu que c'était sur cette plage que furent tournés des scénes du film.
J'ai fait comme Priller, un mitraillage de la plage, mais avec mon appareil photo numérique !!!
Je voudrais envoyer quelques vues, comment on fait ?
Sur ton mail perso ?

A+

Laurent


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MessagePublié : ven. mars 28, 2008 23:42 pm 
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Bonsoir

Le vrai Pips

Image

A+


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MessagePublié : sam. mars 29, 2008 10:04 am 
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Marc Pilot a écrit :
Bonsoir

Le vrai Pips

Image

A+


Salut Marc

Photo prise à Creil ?
A+


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MessagePublié : sam. mars 29, 2008 12:58 pm 
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Bonjour

Il n'y a rien qui ressemble tant à une piste qu'une autre piste... La légende de la photo ne donne hélas pas de précision.

A+


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 Sujet du message : Senlis
MessagePublié : dim. mars 30, 2008 0:42 am 
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See page 109 of Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthogen' by John Weal
Osprey publishing ISBN 1-84176-046-3

by John Weal
Summary: German fighter pilot, Leutnant Wolfgang Fischer's experience of D-Day.

Despite their distance from the landing beaches, I. and III./JG 2 were quick to respond to news of the invasion. Leutnant Wolfgang Fischer, who had flown Gustavs with 4. Staffel in Italy (it was he who had been forced to land after being attacked by RAF Mustangs on 6 April), but had since converted to the Fw 190, remembers D-Day vividly. His experiences may not have been typical, but they are certainly enlightening; ‘At about 0500 hrs on the morning of 6 June a motorcyclist pulled up outside my quarters, yelled my name and the one word – “Invasion!” He drove me out to the strip and we quickly took off back to Creil.
‘There we waited around for two hours while our aircraft were fitted with underwing rockets. We had been briefed to attack the landing fleet, and I spent the time trying to work out how to hit a ship with these things. Their aiming instructions were brief and to the point. “At 1000 metres (3300 ft) range aim off 80 metres (260 ft) to the left”. I decided a beam attack would offer the best chance of success.
‘At 0930 hrs 12 of us took off for Vers-sur-mer (a village along the British ‘Gold' landing beach). Hohagen was not flying this mission – we were being led instead by Hauptmann Wurmheller. The sky was seven-tenths covered in thick cumulus. We kept spotting swarms of Allied fighters in the clear patches but successfully avoided them all, wanting first to fire our rockets at the shipping.'
‘At about 1000 hrs we flew over Bayeux. Parts of the town were already burning. We continued on out over the Bay of the Seine for a short distance, hoping to achieve surprise by attacking from the seaward side. From our altitude of some 3000 metres (9850 ft) I could see the entire coastline from the mouth of the Orne in the east to St Maire-Eglise in the west. Offshore lay a huge armada – battleships on the outermost edges, transports nearer to land, and tiny landing craft heading in to the beaches.‘Dodging between the fat, dark shapes of the barrage balloons, I was the only one lucky enough to find a fair-sized vessel – it could have been a Liberty ship – almost directly in my path. It was turning slightly to port, so I aimed off a full ship's length ahead and pressed the red button normally used to jettison the ventral fuel tank.'
‘For a split-second I seemed to be enveloped in flames. Relieved of the weight of the rockets the machine leaped upwards. Recovering from the shock, I watched the twin points of light head down towards the target. One exploded on the stern of the ship. The other disappeared in a fountain of water just behind her. ‘I released the two launch tubes and quickly built up speed in a shallow dive towards the shore and home. I fired at the beaches as I passed overhead, but it wasn't safe to linger because of the numerous enemy fighter patrols.'
Wolfgang Fischer landed safely at 1045 hrs – not at Creil, but on a racecourse in the grounds of a small chateau at nearby Senlis. It was part of the Luftwaffe's contingency plans in the event of invasion to disperse its fighters on small, hard-to-find landing strips such as this.
At Senlis Fischer experienced what he later described as a ‘grotesque' situation. While Major Hohagen and his Stabsschwarm flew a single mission, which netted the Gruppenkommandeur a Typhoon, the rest of the unit was given the afternoon off! Fischer and his fellow pilots took the opportunity to enjoy the amenities of the local swimming pool – basking in the summer sun with the local populace while a solitary P-51 circled aimlessly some 2000 metres (6500 ft) overhead. But all good things must come to an end.
‘It wasn't until the evening that things started to happen again. At about 1930 hrs Hauptmann Huppertz, the Kommandeur of III. Gruppe, landed on our strip with five of his Focke-Wulfs. When they took off again some thirty minutes later, I and two of my comrades accompanied them. We were flying almost due west at about 400 metres (1300 ft), heading for the scene of the airborne landings around Caen, when we sighted a dozen P-51s circling and strafing one of our road convoys.'
‘All thoughts of the Caen mission were abandoned. We had to help our troops on the ground below. The Mustangs were so engrossed in their work that they failed to notice us. Jettisoning our long-range tanks, we eight Fw 190s climbed to 1200 metres (3900 ft) to reach the ideal height and position from which to launch our attack. ‘Before diving on them from behind, each of us had had ample opportunity to select, quite literally, “his” Mustang. “Mine” had just completed a pass on some vehicles crossing a bridge, and was on the point of pulling up, when I got on his tail – still undetected – and caught him fair and square. The Mustang slid into a gentle dive and smashed into the river bank at the foot of a large tree, which immediately burst into flames from ground to tip like a huge candle.'
‘We landed back at Senlis at around 2130 hrs – it was already getting quite dark – to great excitement. A recording truck was waiting and we were interviewed live on the radio. At that time eight victories without loss was regarded as something quite exceptional.'
In fact, D-Day itself was the Geschwader's most successful day of the entire Normandy campaign. Between them, I. and III./JG 2 had accounted for no fewer than 18 Allied fighters. The first, just before midday, had been a P-47 claimed by Major Kurt Bühligen. It was the Geschwaderkommodore's 99th victory. The highest scorer was Herbert Huppertz, who had already downed three Typhoons before being credited with two of the eight P-51s despatched near Evreux.
On the debit side, each Gruppe had lost just one Focke-Wulf. A 3. Staffel machine had crashed en route from Nancy back to Creil, and one unfortunate pilot of 11./JG 2, newly flown in from the Atlantic seaboard, was promptly shot down by ‘friendly' flak south of Rouen. Two further losses were recorded on D+1. The first was another III./JG 2 pilot, this time of 10. Staffel, who also ventured too close to Rouen's trigger-happy flak defences. The second was Wolfgang Fischer.
Again armed with underwing rockets, Leutnant Fischer was this time flying wingman to Major Hohagen at the head of 20 Fw 190s briefed to attack both the shipping off ‘Gold' and the Würzburg radar station atop the Pointe du Hoc, which had been captured by the enemy. Having missed with his rockets, Fischer dived to rake a large LST with cannon fire. Caught by the ship's anti-aircraft gunners – ‘it was like flying through a glowing spider's web', he recalls – Fischer was wounded and forced to bail out of his badly damaged fighter. The wind carried him back to shore, where he was extricated from a minefield by a pair of British soldiers.
(© Osprey Publishing. Extract taken from: Jagdgeschwader 2 ‘Richthofen' (Aviation Elite Units 1) chapter 4: Retreat and Defeat )

Regards
Graham


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MessagePublié : sam. avr. 26, 2008 21:10 pm 
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Bonsoir, je vous propose ces 3 photos du Fw190/NC900 exposé au Musée de l'Air et de l'Espace, aux couleurs de l'avion de Pips Priller. Amicalement jph
Image
Image
Image


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